Every painting of Isaac’s comes true.

And don’t forget Mohinder’s blood can still cure the original strain of the virus, which I believe Sylar has.  So Sylar can cure himself with Mohinder’s blood.

I wonder if Kaito was speaking about causality and that’s why Hiro couldn’t stop his death.  I also believe was fully ready to accept his fate after seeing Hiro again.  Remember the last time that Hiro attempted to alter the past he failed.  And when future Hiro went back in time he didn’t attempt to alter it merely influence it, thus allowing the people in that time frame to do it.  Could direct attempts to change history have devestating consequences that Kaito knows Hiro cannot do it?  This is a comic book afterall.

I think Hiro is capable of killing Adam if he must, but only will if he is truly certain of his evil.

And I also think that the m. night movie Unbreakable has a bit of truth to provide here.  In comic books there are two kinds of evil.  There is the brutish physical villain who is a definite danger to the Hero, but there is also that true evil, the super-villain equal to the Hero.  The intelletual manipulative villain that is a real danger.  I think Sylar in essence represents that brutish physical villain because he is this tangible evil.  But the company is the other type of evil.  Both are evil and both are necessary.

So are you arguing that the Company and Sylar have similar goals?

And which side does Peter now fall on?

I was wrong. Everything is the paintings did come true. Can I still claim a moral victory since West didn’t end up shooting HRG?

So are you arguing that the Company and Sylar have similar goals?

Oh definitely not.  However I do believe they are both evil.  Sylar is a raw evil.  He wants to kill become powerful.  The company is this morally ambivalent entity.  It seeks to control and shape events to its will.  It believes what its doing is right but still is dangerous.  Afterall they were experimenting with the virus.

And which side does Peter now fall on?

Peter is Peter.  He is a hero.  His goal is to protect the ones he loves and to save the world.  That’s why he agreed to go with the company to begin with, they promised to keep him from exploding but once he realized that they weren’t interested in doing that, and he could save Nathan’s life he chose to escape.

Which is worse - raw evil or “morally ambivalent”?

Think so? Think twice.

But I’m not looking at which is worse.  Only that both must be stopped.  Don’t forget that the company also had captured sylar, and rather than let him die, they kept him alive.  So while I do call them morally ambivalent, I don’t consider them right in the middle and for the sliding scale they’re definitely on the negative end.

what was it about people acting on good intentions...?

The road to Hell is reputed to be paved with them.

However, I also hear that it is actually paved with frozen door-to-door salesmen.

But I’m not looking at which is worse.

But Peter was willing to go along with that “morally ambivalent” group for his own selfish purposes. Wouldn’t that make him even more morally culpable for the actions taken both by him, and on his behalf?

What will he do when he realizes that it is Adam/Kensai that is the evil he needs to fight?

And how would he be able to handle the “sacrifice a family member to save the world” dilemma posed in almost every such Hero/Villain confrontation?

But Peter was willing to go along with that “morally ambivalent” group for his own selfish purposes. Wouldn’t that make him even more morally culpable for the actions taken both by him, and on his behalf?

Ah but what selfish reason is that?  To prevent himself from harming the people he loves, which is why he went along with the company?  He recognized himself as being a danger, and was concerned with others.  To go with Adam to heal his brother?  Is that really selfish?  He came to realize that the company wasn’t what they were claiming, and so chose to break out, and help his brother who was injured because of him.  And Adam is also preaching to him about saving the world, and Peter has seen a danger so he knows it must be done.

What will he do when he realizes that it is Adam/Kensai that is the evil he needs to fight?

That’s a supposition on your part.  I do not believe that Adam is the evil that Peter needs to fight.  He will be Hiro’s confrontation.  But if Peter is involved in the confrontation he will choose the correct side.

And which side is that?

I’m even better with Elle as a character, although I still think that Veronica Mars chick is nowhere near hot enough to be playing this tough, wanna-be sexpot with a dark side.

To each his own, I suppose.  When she was lounging by the pool in her bikini, I had to go to my bunk.

I never watched Veronica Mars, so maybe I haven’t mentally typecast her yet.  I shall go back and watch, though, and have a box of tissue nearby.

Anyway, I think HRG will now have to face the fact that Bob and Co. saved his life.

No way. He knows better than anyone the only reason they brought him back is to use as a bargaining chip/bait for Claire. Their endgame is Claire’s blood. HRG will still kill all of them the moment he gets a chance. He might, as you said, pretend for a while but that’s as close as it’s gettin.

Awesome reference back to last season at the end too. “Holy sh...”

Anyway, I think HRG will now have to face the fact that Bob and Co. saved his life.

I think Adam saved his life.  Any guesses on the powers of the 12 company founders?

Why Adam? Why not Claire’s blood (since Bob no longer had any access to Adam, but did have a unit of Claire’s blood)?

I think Adam saved his life.

No, I don’t think so. If they had a stockpile of Adam’s blood, why would they bother going after Claire? Doesn’t make any sense. This is The Company we’re talking about though so I guess anything is possible.

Most direct line of reasoning seems to be that they used Claire’s blood because they know HRG is the key to getting her back. And getting her under lock and key seems to be VERY important to Bob right now.

I think he’s claiming that maybe peter and adam got a hold of HRG’s body, and brought him back rather than the company doing it.

#10 Posted by Drumwaster on 11/21 at 08:05 PM -

And which side is that?

That would be the side that stops sylar and prevents the virus and really saves the world.  Remember Adam may be claiming that he wants to save the world, but so did Linderman.

Why Adam? Why not Claire’s blood (since Bob no longer had any access to Adam, but did have a unit of Claire’s blood)?

My logic - HRG wants to stop the company, he will try to hide Claire, and he ‘knows where the bodies are buried’, if he is back will probably try to continue to hide Claire and try to stop the company. We know that Adam’s blood will heal another person, now so sure about Claire’s blood, could have something to do with the fact Adam is over 400 years old. Could they use Claire’s or Adam’s blood to bring back the members of the company that have been killed?

if he is back will probably try to continue to hide Claire and try to stop the company.

He won’t be able to do the former, since he doesn’t even know exactly where he is - whether he is even in the same State that he was when he got shot. (The Company has shown itself capable of arranging long-range transport with little or no difficulty about officious stuffiness like airspace control, passports/visas, what have you...)

Second, until he figures out where he is, and how to get out, he won’t even be able to START trying to figure out where Claire is, since she is under the protection of Superboy Lite, and he doesn’t need to rely on a bus schedule to disappear quickly.

Third, the Company could have been aware of the healing power of Claire’s blood even before they handed her to HRG, since they already knew that her father (Nathan) and her mother (Jessalyn Gilsig, aka Blondie McBicfinger) were both “special”. She was young enough to not know what was happening, and her abilities wouldn’t necessarily have been ones that developed during adolescence, but rather, became recognized by the maturing young lady. (Kids think they are immortal anyway, and healing from minor scratches would have happened even before she got home, and would her mother even listen if little Claire says, “Mommy, I think I hurt my arm earlier, but it seems alright now...”?)

It wasn’t until she realized that others could be hurt in ways that shows even hours later until she started socializing with them, and realizing that she never seemed to get seriously hurt. She starts experimenting, and we have Season 1, Episode 1, and her throwing herself off the grain tower and into burning buildings.

Could they use Claire’s or Adam’s blood to bring back the members of the company that have been killed?

A very good question, but what gives you the impression that HRG was actually dead? Getting one’s eye shot out (from behind, according to the slightly fuzzy TiVO playback on a 13-year-old TV set - good call, Jim!) would be both serious and debilitating, but not necessarily lethal. (It also shows what kind of mischief can happen when you give a loaded weapon to someone who has no idea how to use it - anyone who has ever shot a gun before would have been able to hit a head-sized target from less than 20 feet away. If it had been me, HRG would be “most sincerely dead”.)

We have no evidence that Adam’s blood can bring anyone back who was actually dead. Badly injured, certainly, but not necessarily dead. I don’t really think so, since there would need to be some means of moving that healing blood around the injured body, which implies a still-beating heart.

A very good question, but what gives you the impression that HRG was actually dead?

He was dead.  His eyes had the exact same look as claire and Peter did after they were killed, and only after they were healed could you see “life” return back to their eyes.  The same thing happened with HRG.  And they also had him say the exact same thing Claire did when she came back.  So its spelled out that he was dead pretty plainly I believe.

After watching the episode again it seems pretty obvious to me that Bob and Co took HRG’s body. They had a large enough vehicle, noone to try to stop them (since Claire and West flew off) and every reason to believe they could bring him back. He’s bait for Claire. She’ll convince Superboy that they have to save him, they’ll try and fail, and the Company will have the whole family. Until HRG saves them all that is…

He was dead.

What distributed that healing blood from IV injection site to injured eye? Osmosis?

Second question - why wouldn’t the Company heal Linderman, since they already had Adam - and his healing blood that can allegedly bring people back from the dead - under their control at that point in time? Or Papa Petrelli? Were they just not considered important enough?

And why would Adam be in a hurry to heal Nathan, since if his blood could revive the dead, there wouldn’t be any hurry, would there?

What distributed that healing blood from IV injection site to injured eye?

A direct injection into the heart muscle similar to an adrenaline shot followed by an iv drip after the blood started flowing again? Or they put him on bypass for a while until his brain-stem was recovered enough to stimulate the heart itself? Super-improbable yeah, But this is Heroes right?

As far as Linderman, maybe there’s a limit to what regenerative blood can accomplish. Claire and HRG’s brain injuries were both from projectiles and shouldn’t have done that much damage. At least as compared to having someone reach into your brain and swirl it around. Could be there just wasn’t enough left of Linderman’s neural pathways to make a go of it. Or they tried and he ended up alive but a simpering, shit-licking idiot. Which would be nice…

What distributed that healing blood from IV injection site to injured eye? Osmosis?

We don’t know how the healing properties work.  Afterall both Claire and Peters hearts stopped beating, yet they healed too.  So its not necessarily a blood pumping action.  With Nathan his heart was pumping so the effect was almost immediate.  But for HRG he could have been hooked up for hours before he finally healed.  The blood could seek out and heal the injured area on its own.

Second question - why wouldn’t the Company heal Linderman, since they already had Adam - and his healing blood that can allegedly bring people back from the dead - under their control at that point in time? Or Papa Petrelli? Were they just not considered important enough?

Linderman likely had Papa Petrelli killed.  And since he was leading the company, they weren’t going to heal him.  With Linderman dead, Bob and Kaito were likely the ones in charge of the company.  Bob seems like he doesn’t have exactly the same visionary ideas as Linderman, and Kaito defied the company by helping Hiro with his destiny.  I doubt either of them were interested in bringing back Linderman.

Could just be an agreed upon decision too not to do that.

That would be the side that stops sylar and prevents the virus and really saves the world.

The conflict between Peter and Hiro over Adam has arisen.

Peter thinks Adam (who apparently wants to release the virus) wants to destroy the virus and save the world.

Hiro doesn’t care about the virus, but is only out to avenge his father by killing Adam once and for all.

What is Peter gonna do?

From next weeks preview, Peter puts Hiro down. Don’t know if that means he dies or just gets put out of commission. 2 heroes will fall? Fall as in die or fall as in take the dark path? Methinks Hiro and Elle die.